"Let us be still and open to discernment"???

it's a little late for that now.  That should have been on the minds of the folks at the assembly who just tossed 1976 years of Christian teaching concerning marriage out the window.

I approve and applaud every congregation that leaves the ELCA, and cheer each congregant who leaves any local church which embraces this nonsense.  My own congregation does not seem to be going this route, and so I will not be leaving at this time.  But from now on, my offering will be earmarked soley for the operating expenses of the congregation.  All ELCA appeals will be ignored, and I will purchase no more books from Augsburg Fortress. 

Don't try to inflict feelings of guilt on the departing.  They have nothing to be ashamed of.  The picture of the "righteous remnant' which survives the dead tree is a common theme in the scripture. And no one needs ELCA to be Lutheran or Christian.

As far as I am concerned, the ELCA can sink.

I would truly love to see discussion on the rest of the Human Sexuality statement...the 95% that did not get discussed at Church Wide Assembly.

I challenge each of us to read the statement and find 10 things that you can lift up and agree with.  I believe after finding 10 things, you'll easily find another 10 and another and another.

I am PROUD of my chuch and the step forward they have taken to be an inclusive church.  I am waiting patiently for the day when I can and my partner can recieve a full blessing of our committment from our church.  Thank God for the Transformation Ministry that many struggling churchs are going though.  It is an enlighting process and all can learn and have something to offer. 

In my church I cantor every other week the 1st service, and serve when needed as a greeter, usher, worship host, communion host, lay reader, former treasurer and council member.  I produce DVD's of Christmas and Easter Cantata's - the list goes on....  Am I a "bad" person because of my orientation?  Absolutely not!  Am I shuned by my congregation? Not that I am aware of.  If I were would wonder if that person believed in the Transformational Ministery. 

The guiding prinicples of our church:
Transfoming lives with Christ!
Jesus is Lord!
God Welcomes everyone.
Everything we have belongs to God.
Everyone is on God's team.
Everyone need a neighbor like us.

It is my hope that for every member we lose because of the sexuality issue, we will gain one who has been waiting to be accepted for who she or he is.

Kevin,

What sin does God "bless?"  Active service does not give your sin a free pass.  We all sin and God acknowledges every sin.  What he does NOT do is bless that sin.  Your same-sex relationship should be no different.

I tried expressing myself.

It was made clear to me that my views were neither helpful nor welcome.

Therefore, my departure from the ELCA is all but assured.

Two options are TAALC and LCMS.

No, Ed, there is not a special category of homosexual sin in the Bible.

However, the ELCA has chosen to make that particular sin one that is endorsed ecclesiastically by popular vote.

It would be like forming a task force to study if those who are openly, unrepentantly hateful, in violation of Luther's take on the 8th Commandment,  say a member of the KKK or Aryan Nations, would be eligible for ordination (and no, I'm not comparing homosexual people to the Klan or neo-Nazis, especially given that they are too often the target of these nutcase types).

Or if someone in a congregation consistently, publicly says that Joe or Jane Churchgoer is a dirty rotten so-and-so, still admitting them to Communion without repentance.

OK, those are dramatic examples.  But I think (hope) you get my point.

How can the ELCA have two irreconcilable conclusions at the same time?  How can people believe, as Luther did, the Bible is the True Authority? Now others within the church believe that the Bible can be reinterpreted to allow for gay and lesbian relationships as if they were married?  Frankly, it does not square up with the Word of God. 

The two opposites can not coexist let alone both be faithful to Scripture.  I am shocked and admittedly angry, yet in my opinion the leadership within the ELCA has been headed down the "wrong path" since the merger.

Ray--

 If you google "Homosexuality and the Bible" by Walter Wink, you may find some interesting thoughts that could help.

The floodgates are open.  Now that Scripture is negotiable and up for majority vote, who knows what's next?

Perhaps brother-and-sister marriage of those in "loving, committed long-term relationships?"

That sounds outrageous.  However, what happened at CWA would have seemed outrageous not all that long ago.

I was kicked out of the LC-MS for standing with my professors at Seminex.  They were condemened by a vote of 56% to 44% as 'teachers not to be tolerated in the church of God' - language borrowed from the Formula of Concord.  The ugly head of literalism has struck again when ELCA Assembly members speak of the inerrant 'Word of God' and infallible Bible. 

As compared to the LC-MS experience - there was no discussion and no dialog in the LC-MS that we've seen in the ELCA.  In the ELCA - all voices have been allowed to speak...with the result of neither side being absolute or voting out the other side!

That is indeed counter-cultural.  Those who wish to make their stance on homsexuality absolute - there is clearly a place for you in the LC-MS - but beware - you will not be allowed to think that evolution is a helpful theory, you will not be able to have women clergy and there will be no nuances when it comes to a women's right to privacy in their personal decisions.  The LC-MS will insist that you take the book of Jonah as literal truth rather than a parable.  All these will be pre-requisites to fellowship.

Then you can attend their all male District meetings and their all male national conventions. 

I thank God for the wide tent of the ELCA and the humility in which we approach things that we really cannot make absolute. 

Pastor Storck:

I was formerly a member of the LCMS.  It was with no small trepidation that I came back to the ELCA.  I still held out hope that what happened at CWA, making the ELCA a "neo-Lutheran" rough equivalent of the Metropolitan Community Church or Old Catholic Church, would not happen.

I know what the LCMS believes.  You would probably be surprised in the days since Seminex that there have indeed been changes.

1. Close(d) communion can vary from congregation to congregation, from very strict to virtually open.
2. Many congregations now have women lectors.
3. Many LCMS schools have women as faculty and administrators.
4. There are deaconesses, just as in the ELCA.
5. An LCMS pastor told me directly that many, many people in the LCMS do not agree 100% with their stance on "a woman's right to choose," and that he had neither the ability nor desire to police anyone's thoughts.

Point: The LCMS is not the homogenous monolith one may think.

If people try the LCMS, and decide they don't like it, no-one is forcing them to become members.

I attended a very, very good LCMS church for almost seven years.  Frankly, I've missed it, especially since CWA.  We are visiting an LCMS congregation tomorrow, and the AALC is another avenue.

During my time in the LCMS, I never once heard a theological argument about Jonah and the whale, though I concur that was an issue at Seminex.  My former LCMS pastor was one of the best at explaining how to read the Bible in context that I have ever seen.

The LCMS is not perfect.  Some still grumble about Yankee Stadium,  and many of the other points I made about the role of women.

But at least there one has a reasonable expectation of what you'll get.

David,

 So, what the LC-MS says it does not mean and congregations and pastors are pretty much able to do what they want...why are they, then, in a church body that does not match their perspective?  Is the LC-MS a paper tiger.

So you will go and swallow hard in an LC-MS parish, but are unable to be with ELCA sisters and brothers who will still respect you and love you, even though we may disagree.  And besides there are very loving and great congregations in the ELCA that will be happy to have you as a parishioner.  I, too, would certainly welcome you and respect you.

I'm confused....

Pastor, I cannot know of your grievances against the LCMS and I will not try, but I think I can glean from your writing that the wounds are still raw.  I will not try to minimise that.

I know somewhat of it, but only through reading about it and anecdote.  I have known pastors who came through Seminex and in fact I attended a former AELC congregation (which will likely lose a lot more people than just me). 

Also, my former LCMS pastor even told me that all sides could have handled it better. 

I was seven years old in 1973 and unchurched.  "Luther" to me was the middle name of Dr King.

Rancour within a church is toxic, and that is why I am almost stunned with disbelief that the leadership of the ELCA truly believes that its membership can really, truly, honestly still live with one another over such a bitterly divisive issue, and the perception (real or imagined) that this was engineered from the outset for this outcome.  Call me cynical, but human nature just isn't that way, as I'm sure your years of providing pastoral care have shown.

What you may call "justice" may be called "heresy" by others, and with equal sincerity.

There are many whose "bound conscience" will lead them to a path away from the ELCA.  I am one of those.

I have no doubt that you would welcome me in your congregation.  However, I would not be a good fit for you, because of my beliefs not just about homosexuality, but about doctrine in general.  Is it sensible to try to force square pegs into round holes?  I think that would just generate more heat than light.  Of course I'm angry about this.  No excuses.  It is what it is.  But the anger, resentment, loss, and betrayal I feel is shared by a lot of others, and it would not be beneficial to keep that within ELCA.

Whether or not Missouri is a "paper tiger" I couldn't tell you.  But it has its squabbles too, mostly from people who do not like the things that have happened with the role of women, Yankee Stadium and even new hymnals to replace the 1941 TLH.

But know this: I am not "swallowing" and going back to Missouri.  I am looking for a new church home.  At this stage I don't even know with certainty that I am going back to the LCMS.

Hi David - I hope you can find a new church home and it is all you hope it will be.  It's a bit strange but I left the Lutheran church for the reason completely opposite if your needing to leave.  We come from different sides of the coin but it is the same coin.  We are all brothers and sisters in Christ and whatever church we find our place in we are all part of the body of Christ and share in His sacraments and His Love and His Ressurection. 

The peace of the Lord be with you always,

Everett

David,

 Go in peace.  Serve the Lord.

Thanks be to God.

Amen.

Everett and Pastor Kenn:

And also with you.

DP